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Author Topic: Post your unprocessed images here for help from our members.  (Read 31010 times)

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Offline egdavies

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Re: Post your unprocessed images here for help from our members.
« Reply #30 on: 19:16:46, 27 August, 2007 »
Well that was fun :D

Just had a quick go  at your moon shot Dave.

Ran some Deconvolution on it in maximDL to sharpen it up a touch,
Then into PS bit of curves to kill the colour cast and a tiny bit of desaturation to kill off the rest.
Bit more curves.
Save.
Post :D

Eddie

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Offline davemahoney

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Re: Post your unprocessed images here for help from our members.
« Reply #31 on: 19:41:39, 27 August, 2007 »
 :D
Skywatcher ED80 pro
Celestron 114mm short newt.
ASTSC1C Webcam.
Fuji finepix s3500.
Bresser 10x50 bins.
Switched Systems electronic focuser.
And a couple of eyepieces and filters.

Offline roundycat

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Re: Post your unprocessed images here for help from our members.
« Reply #32 on: 19:47:39, 27 August, 2007 »
Nice one Daniel. I'm glad the processing was a bit simpler on this one. Your last effort on M31 was a bit like reading War and Peace!! :D :D

Dennis

Offline koootzz

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Re: Post your unprocessed images here for help from our members.
« Reply #33 on: 20:13:32, 27 August, 2007 »
Thanks Jeff, looks much better than my try!!

What is the difference between working on the separate RGB channels in photoshop and processing FITS files as you did. I can only do basic adjustments in photoshop based on what results I see so some theory would help me out

Cheers

Leigh
Leigh
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Offline jaycee

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Re: Post your unprocessed images here for help from our members.
« Reply #34 on: 22:14:45, 27 August, 2007 »
Thanks Jeff, looks much better than my try!!

What is the difference between working on the separate RGB channels in photoshop and processing FITS files as you did. I can only do basic adjustments in photoshop based on what results I see so some theory would help me out

Cheers

Leigh


Hi Leigh.
Tough question to answer. There is a lot that can be done within Photoshop and to some extent the later versions make the work a little easier. For the few dollars, it is well worth getting Noel's Astronomy Tools, which you can get here...

http://actions.home.att.net/Astronomy_Tools.html

...and they cost under a tenner plus you get free updates for life. There are many Photoshop actions that are very useful and save a lot of time if you are unsure about what to do.

The action I used after creating the separate RGB channels as FITS files, from Nebulosity, is called construct an RGB image from separate channel files. Now as luck would have it, it does not care about the format and it also allows for some processing of the file it is importing, even in the middle of the action. I have installed the ESA/ESO/NASA Photoshop FITS Liberator, which is both cross-platform software and totally free to you. The acronym FITS represents the Flexible Image Transport System and it turns out to be the most common format for Astronomy image files within the scientific community. It can deal with files in 8, 16 or 32 bit so that is also a plus. You can get it from here...

http://www.spacetelescope.org/projects/fits_liberator/download_v21.html

Photoshop is not so good at permitting you to stretch the histogram (up to CS version anyway) and I suspect that the FITS liberator is much more complete and controllable. I have attached some images of just the red channel of the picture you supplied and show you 3 shots of the Liberator in practice (click on them to embiggen them ;) )during the import to construct and RGB image using the Noel's Tools action designed for the job.


Picture one shows the red component as it came into the FITS liberator software. On the right of the window, I have ticked the checkboxes for Preview which shows the image in the central area, White and Black clipping. The important one here is the White clipping which is assigned a green colour. You can see the green area in the centre of the image that is displayed and you may be able to detect that there are many green stars. This tells me that the highlights (the brightest areas of the image) have gone to white and there is no other colour information or detail in those areas. You should note that the white point slider on the histogram in the lower left area of the screenshot shows the whitepoint to be 27387.08 and the black point is set at 12805.54

Picture two shows a change in the histogram. The most important things to notice are that the green is missing from the image and the white point is now at 59659.00. With none of the highlight detail being blank white, you have now recovered a lot more information in this image. This change was achieved by means of using the white eyedropper (of the top pair) to touch the centre of the nebula that was displaying burnt out highlight detail. Simply that and nothing more. Notice the reduction in size of the centre of M31. I made a mistake in my processing of your image, earlier, and did not follow this step. I went straight to the next step which is illustrated in picture three.

Picture three shows the image looks lighter but still no clipping of the white point to create empty areas of highlight information. (no green areas). The whole histogram has now shifted to the highlight end of the scale and the stretch function on the right side of the dialogue box, adjacent to the histogram, shows that there is some advanced scaling and stretching of the histogram using the ArcSinh(x) function. It was probably my photgraphic knowledge that helped me to tweak an image that I now think I must have processed sub-optimally.

Each channel of RG & B channels that I had separated out from your image, was processed in FITS liberator as Noel's action was bringing them into Photoshop to create an RGB composite image from the 3 channels. The action waited while I messed about in FITS and the total time to import the 3 channels was about 4 minutes. The action then did its stuff and I had the choice, thereafter of which adjustments I wanted to make to the image... either with further actions or from my own experience.

FITS is designed for this stuff and photoshop is not and will always be second best to dedicated software. I know that photoshop jockeys can make the software do a lot or mimic a lot. That histogram stretch function is not available in any version of Photoshop that I have seen or used but I am willing to be corrected. Having said that, the people who provided the plugin must have done so because they saw a need for it. There is a huge amount of programming effort in that small plugin and I would not want to be without it.

My image processing skills are fantastic for normal photography because that is what i earn my living at. Astro-imaging is a completely different beast and I am just now getting my feet wet. Any of my efforts that look OK are looking like that because I have some other knowledge that helps me to make blunders that don't look too bad. My reason for tyrying to process your image is so that I can get up to the same standard as I am with my normal photgraphic work.

I hope this helps you, Leigh. :)

Cheers! wesdasd
Jeff


EDIT: typos


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Offline spaismunky

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Re: Post your unprocessed images here for help from our members.
« Reply #35 on: 23:26:51, 27 August, 2007 »
God I love this thread! :big_clap: :big_clap: :big_clap: :big_clap:
mojo :D
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Offline koootzz

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Re: Post your unprocessed images here for help from our members.
« Reply #36 on: 01:53:25, 28 August, 2007 »
Jeff
Thank you for explaining the process so well. I haven't got nebulosity, is there another way to get the rgb channels saved to fits files?
Leigh
vixen 60s, modded 1000D, modded 300D, DSI I, 10" dob (work in progress), some other bits and a stupendous talent for attracting cloud!

Offline jaycee

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Re: Post your unprocessed images here for help from our members.
« Reply #37 on: 02:47:11, 28 August, 2007 »
Leigh, I have no idea which computing platform you are using.  If it is Windows then you will need to put the question to Windows platform users. I am reasonably sure that there will be something that you can use.

If all fails, you could look at Image J which you can find here...

http://rsb.info.nih.gov/ij/

It is very powerful and very fast and it has an extensive plugin architecture. I have not yet done much with it. The software looks to have a very steep learning curve too.

FWIW, Nebulosity cost me $45 which equates to about £22 and it is also cross platform.

Sorry I could not be more helpful.

Cheers! wesdasd
Jeff
Jeff wesdasd ~ Celestron Nexstar 102 SLT

Offline dciobota

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Re: Post your unprocessed images here for help from our members.
« Reply #38 on: 18:04:40, 28 August, 2007 »
  Wow, so many posts!  :cool:  See what you started Mo?  ;)

  I'm glad this finally took off.  Sorry for not trying to process some of the other submissions, I will when I get the chance.  Been trying to help RogerB post his 32bit tiff file, but no luck.  Btw, anyone know if you can share a yousendit link?  He sent me the file via yousendit, I wonder if others could use the same link to download the file.

 Great job everyone, great work and explanations... better than my war and peace articles, I think I lost everyone on those.  ;)

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Offline koootzz

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Re: Post your unprocessed images here for help from our members.
« Reply #39 on: 18:24:47, 28 August, 2007 »
Hi Daniel
Don't know about yousendit but the file could be uploaded to box.net and make it public, that's what I did with the M31 pic. Only takes a couple of minutes to set up an account and it's free providing each file is below 10Mb and total files <1Gb.

HTH

Leigh
Leigh
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Offline dciobota

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Re: Post your unprocessed images here for help from our members.
« Reply #40 on: 18:44:33, 28 August, 2007 »
 That's the problem Leigh, the file is 58MB.  If it was 10MB or less I can host it on my website as well.
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Offline koootzz

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Re: Post your unprocessed images here for help from our members.
« Reply #41 on: 18:52:12, 28 August, 2007 »
Leigh
vixen 60s, modded 1000D, modded 300D, DSI I, 10" dob (work in progress), some other bits and a stupendous talent for attracting cloud!

Offline dciobota

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Re: Post your unprocessed images here for help from our members.
« Reply #42 on: 19:45:54, 28 August, 2007 »
  Ahh, much better Leigh, thanks!  :urock:

  I'll give it a go tonight see what happens.

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Offline roundycat

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Re: Post your unprocessed images here for help from our members.
« Reply #43 on: 11:18:17, 29 August, 2007 »
Leigh,

I had a quick go at your M31. I'm glad I did as, for what it's worth, it is a very good picture. Far more detail in there than I at first thought. I have lost track of what camera you were using, if it was a DSLR did you have the internal sharpening turned off? I found a lot of very fine black halo bits around the stars at 100% and you can do without that. It looks like sharpening artefacts. It can be got rid of if you sharpen in PS in layers but it is too late for that.

I used the TIFF download and gave it Levels three times for the initial stretch. Then two iterations of curves to selectively increase the contrast in the 'interesting' regions. This bit must be done very carefully. Then a small dose of hue/saturation to bring up the colour. Curves is probably a more controlled way of doing this but this was a quick one.

Another two iterations of curves to do some curve bending in the places where there was a colour imbalance in the picture. For the most part I assume that some parts of the central area and the outer background are supposed to be grey. I know this is not always a given but you have to start somewhere. Then Hue/saturation again (about +10) and finally Neat Image to filter out the noise.

I made no attempt to take out the gradients and the dust shadows. This is best dealt with by flat fielding.

Dennis.

edit: I just looked at this on the forum page and it is completely overdone. On my monitor it looks a million dollars. Clearly a mis-match between a PS display and web colours.

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Offline starf

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Re: Post your unprocessed images here for help from our members.
« Reply #44 on: 11:29:54, 29 August, 2007 »
M31
===

1. Used iris to convert tif to fit, loaded the fit nto maximdl and applied the following (lost the colour doing this)
1. DDP filter, with the stretch set to range.
2. Tiny bit of FFT filter, High Pass, custom settings, only enough to make a small contrast change
3. Richardson-Lucy/Vanderbei Script RLdeconGaussianPSF Iterations = 5, FWHM=2.32, StdDev = 1420

imported the deconvolved fit file into cs2 using fits liberator and applied the following noels actions
space noise reduction
enhance DSO and reduce stars

finally resized to 768 x 512

a flat would have really helped this image to not only get rid of the light pollution (gradient) but to get rid of those blotches.

i should point out too that the maximdl processing was solely picked up on the advice of eddie; but the Richardson-Lucy/Vanderbei Script are very good at bringing out subtle details, provided of course your image has sufficient data to work with, which this one does.

regards.

ps also had a go at ian's M1 but to to be honest he did a better job on that data than i did so i have not posted anything.

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