Username:

Password:

Altair AstroDIO DehumidifiersAtik CamerasModern AstronomyDavid HindsNe3 Filters

Author Topic: Meteor Radar SDR Receiver (usnig FUNcube dongle)  (Read 11664 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nomis Elfactem

  • Administrator
  • Galactic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 12932
    • The View From A Room
Re: Meteor Radar SDR Receiver (usnig FUNcube dongle)
« Reply #15 on: 12:33:24, 28 July, 2014 »
143.05 MHz

 ;)

(indeed about the ionised trail  ;))
Simon

Scopes: Astro-Tech AT-111EDT Triplet, TS65ED Quad, Orion ST80, Modded PST-90 Solar Scope, PST Cak (on loan)
Cameras: SXVF H694, Atik 16ic, Canon EOS 600d, DMK41, DMK21, QHY 5L-II (mono & colour)
Accessories: SX USB Filter Wheel, SX OAG, Baader LRGB Ha SI OII Filters, SharpSky Focuser
Mount: EQ6 (EQMOD), SW Star Adventurer, plus a lot (and I mean a lot) of other bits and pieces

Offline Ian Straton

  • Poster God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1096
    • Stoneage Observatory blog
Re: Meteor Radar SDR Receiver (usnig FUNcube dongle)
« Reply #16 on: 21:31:52, 28 July, 2014 »
wonder if you could use RAF fylingdales or RAF Menwith hill for this? not sure if they are constantly transmitting in the same way as Graves is but could give a different angle for observation..

Offline Ian Straton

  • Poster God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1096
    • Stoneage Observatory blog
Re: Meteor Radar SDR Receiver (usnig FUNcube dongle)
« Reply #17 on: 21:37:29, 28 July, 2014 »
so Fylingdales transmits in the range of 420 - 450 MHz apparently, is that any use in the context of meteor gathering?

Offline Bazzaar

  • Poster God
  • *****
  • Posts: 979
Re: Meteor Radar SDR Receiver (usnig FUNcube dongle)
« Reply #18 on: 22:33:47, 28 July, 2014 »
wonder if you could use RAF fylingdales or RAF Menwith hill for this? not sure if they are constantly transmitting in the same way as Graves is but could give a different angle for observation..

No, its the wrong type of radar. Graves only works for the purpose of meteor detection because it is a CW Doppler RADAR. Most RADAR are pulsed.
What is needed is a just a very powerful CW(not as in morse CW but constant like a beacon) transmitter. I'm sure people used to use things like eastern european VHF TV stations or FM broadcast transmitters back in the day. Graves is ideal but NOT due to it being part of any sort of RADAR system.

Barry
Tal 200k, SW 200P, iOptron iEQ45 pro, HEQ5 pro, QHY5III174m, QHY5L II mono, Samsung SBC 2001, SharpSky focuser, Zwo ADC,  Celestron 15x70 bins,

Offline ChrisLX200

  • Poster God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2281
  • Macclesfield UK
Re: Meteor Radar SDR Receiver (usnig FUNcube dongle)
« Reply #19 on: 22:40:55, 09 August, 2014 »
Well I can't get anything from Graves on 143.050.000, maybe I'm just too far away from it.

ChrisH
Chris Heapy - current: 10-Micron GM2000HPS-II U/P, G11/Gemini, TV NP127is, Altair 8" RC, TV Genesis SDF, TV Pronto, SW Equinox 80ED, 10" LX200, 12" f/5.4 Newt, Vixen 90mm.
Atik 490EX, Atik EFW, Baader LRGB filters, Astrodon 3nM NB filters, Lodestar, QHY5L-II all-sky, Canon 70D and 350D
Whirley Obs., MPC Code Z89

Offline Al.Grant

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Meteor Radar SDR Receiver (usnig FUNcube dongle)
« Reply #20 on: 11:10:54, 14 August, 2014 »

Hi all,

Following this with interest.  I'm currently in the process of setting up my own SDR-Radio based detector, I'm hoping to have it working and looking for 'first ping' (can't really call it first light) within the next week or so.
 
I won't be making the antenna shown in the S@N article but will be using a borrowed 2M Ham Radio Yagi which is lighter and will be easier to mount.

I've  been told by the radio ham who is loaning me the antenna that I should expect higher signal gain from his antenna.  If it all works well then it only costs around £30 - £40 to buy one.
And it helps that my (very understanding) wife if far happier with a nicer looking, smaller antenna being mounted rather than the wood & copper pipe homebrew thing in S@N. 


I found a couple of pdf files that give a good overview of radio meteor detection using the GRAVES radar:
Here http://dk5ec.de/Graves-Echo-english.pdf  and here  http://www.britastro.org/radio/projects/Detection_of_meteors_by_RADAR.pdf

I have a spare PC at home that will be used for this detector and the intention is to keep it running 24/7 using Spectrum Lab and Colorgramme to process the results. 
Obviously I'll want to take a much closer manual look at any bigger pings. 

I suspect there'll be a good bit of tweaking of the Spectrum Lab settings to get things right.Very interested in trying to see if speed & directional info can be obtained from the trace.
I'll be trying the S@N config files, but there is also some info & config files here on setting up Spectrum Labs 'conditional actions' to automatically count hits. (may be of use - but I can't vouch for it


Well I can't get anything from Graves on 143.050.000, maybe I'm just too far away from it.

ChrisH

I would think you should be able to hear GRAVES where you are. 
This website show regularly updated info from other detectors using the Colorgramme software (something I fully intend to use) http://www.rmob.org/livedata/main.php (it auto refreshes every few mins)
Some of the UK sites are much further North than your location, at present there are a couple showing up around Newcastle and I've seen one in Scotland and they are using the Graves freq (143.050Mhz), so it may well be worth another try.


Cheers
   Al
Enthusiasm exceeds experience & aspirations exceed budget!
http://www.ukstargazer.org/

Offline Bazzaar

  • Poster God
  • *****
  • Posts: 979
Re: Meteor Radar SDR Receiver (usnig FUNcube dongle)
« Reply #21 on: 15:17:35, 14 August, 2014 »
Al, that's a good point about 2m ham antennas, the frequency difference isnt too great so they will work well and save people from all that plumbing to make one!
A word of caution about going for higher gain antennas, generally that means more directive and narrower beam width( think fov astronomers)
Go too far and you run the risk of having many of the meteors not being detected.
If your talking about 3 or 4 element arrays you should still be ok. Yagis are available up 14 elements or more! real monsters they are!

Barry
Tal 200k, SW 200P, iOptron iEQ45 pro, HEQ5 pro, QHY5III174m, QHY5L II mono, Samsung SBC 2001, SharpSky focuser, Zwo ADC,  Celestron 15x70 bins,

Offline ChrisLX200

  • Poster God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2281
  • Macclesfield UK
Re: Meteor Radar SDR Receiver (usnig FUNcube dongle)
« Reply #22 on: 16:22:10, 14 August, 2014 »
Al: Be interested to hear how you get on with that 3el 144MHz OWL Yagi, maybe it's my discone that simply isn't up to the job. I did spend some time crawling the frequencies I used to use and did find a weak-ish carrier and a fair meteor scatter response, I thought I was in luck - but then it cut off at 12:15am! I checked again last night but not a peep out of it. If that antenna is successful then I may invest in one.

ChrisH
Chris Heapy - current: 10-Micron GM2000HPS-II U/P, G11/Gemini, TV NP127is, Altair 8" RC, TV Genesis SDF, TV Pronto, SW Equinox 80ED, 10" LX200, 12" f/5.4 Newt, Vixen 90mm.
Atik 490EX, Atik EFW, Baader LRGB filters, Astrodon 3nM NB filters, Lodestar, QHY5L-II all-sky, Canon 70D and 350D
Whirley Obs., MPC Code Z89

Offline Al.Grant

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Meteor Radar SDR Receiver (usnig FUNcube dongle)
« Reply #23 on: 21:31:37, 14 August, 2014 »
Al: Be interested to hear how you get on with that 3el 144MHz OWL Yagi, maybe it's my discone that simply isn't up to the job. I did spend some time crawling the frequencies I used to use and did find a weak-ish carrier and a fair meteor scatter response, I thought I was in luck - but then it cut off at 12:15am! I checked again last night but not a peep out of it. If that antenna is successful then I may invest in one.

ChrisH


> ChrisH:  I'll post on how I get on, but it now looks like it will be into next week before I get my hands on the antenna ... can't really complain as I'm getting to try it for free.

There is a guy on SGL from Middlesborough using a HB9CV 2 element Yagi and one of the cheap RTL-SDR dongles ( HB9CV means nothing to me but they seem to be common Ham antennas). Anyway he looks to be getting good hits using that antenna on the graves freq, so it's certainly achievable from the more Northern parts of the country (good to know as I'm in the Midlands).

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/174881-cliffs-fireball-cam-radio-meteor-recieving-station/?p=1839214

There is a link to an audio of his detection .... I'd be very happy hearing those.

> Bazzaar  The Yagi I'll be borrowing is a 3 element. 
This one:  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3el-144MHz-2m-Yagi-Shorter-than-HB9CV-and-Moxon-but-more-GAIN-SOTA-Portable-/290812885021  I'm tempted just to order one now, but trying to be patient!

Al
 
Enthusiasm exceeds experience & aspirations exceed budget!
http://www.ukstargazer.org/

Offline Nomis Elfactem

  • Administrator
  • Galactic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 12932
    • The View From A Room
Re: Meteor Radar SDR Receiver (usnig FUNcube dongle)
« Reply #24 on: 08:25:16, 15 August, 2014 »
Chris - when you say you can't "hear" Graves what do you mean.... also are you de-tuning to 143.048 as you need the 2khz for Doppler and have you angled it at 10deg to the southeast? Finally, my  yagi is from eBay as I didn't want a Heath Robinson... however even so and I've got the mounting poles my good lady doesn't want it visible in the garden. I see a roof mounted Arduino project coming.... so many project... so little time.
Simon

Scopes: Astro-Tech AT-111EDT Triplet, TS65ED Quad, Orion ST80, Modded PST-90 Solar Scope, PST Cak (on loan)
Cameras: SXVF H694, Atik 16ic, Canon EOS 600d, DMK41, DMK21, QHY 5L-II (mono & colour)
Accessories: SX USB Filter Wheel, SX OAG, Baader LRGB Ha SI OII Filters, SharpSky Focuser
Mount: EQ6 (EQMOD), SW Star Adventurer, plus a lot (and I mean a lot) of other bits and pieces

Offline ChrisLX200

  • Poster God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2281
  • Macclesfield UK
Re: Meteor Radar SDR Receiver (usnig FUNcube dongle)
« Reply #25 on: 08:54:33, 15 August, 2014 »
Chris - when you say you can't "hear" Graves what do you mean.... also are you de-tuning to 143.048 as you need the 2khz for Doppler and have you angled it at 10deg to the southeast? Finally, my  yagi is from eBay as I didn't want a Heath Robinson... however even so and I've got the mounting poles my good lady doesn't want it visible in the garden. I see a roof mounted Arduino project coming.... so many project... so little time.

Hi Si,
I mean I see nothing on Spectrum Lab, and I have tuned either side of the nominal 143.050.000 during the peak of the Perseids so if there were anything I would have been sure to see it. I've recorded meteors before, for 2 years 24/7 from a variety of analog TV carriers, so I know what to look for. I feel it must be the Discone (which is omni-directional) and I need the extra gain from the Yagi, I just don't want to buy one without being confident it will work for me. I have two iCom PCR1000 receivers that I used for this job and they still appear fully functional and they tune accurately. The old E. European analog TV transmitters were outputting 450Kw not the 10Kw of Graves.
Chris
Chris Heapy - current: 10-Micron GM2000HPS-II U/P, G11/Gemini, TV NP127is, Altair 8" RC, TV Genesis SDF, TV Pronto, SW Equinox 80ED, 10" LX200, 12" f/5.4 Newt, Vixen 90mm.
Atik 490EX, Atik EFW, Baader LRGB filters, Astrodon 3nM NB filters, Lodestar, QHY5L-II all-sky, Canon 70D and 350D
Whirley Obs., MPC Code Z89

Offline Nomis Elfactem

  • Administrator
  • Galactic Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 12932
    • The View From A Room
Re: Meteor Radar SDR Receiver (usnig FUNcube dongle)
« Reply #26 on: 22:24:23, 15 August, 2014 »
Sorry Chris, didn't mean to teach granny to such eggs... can only go on my limited experience and as you can see I picked them up from Graves with a 3 element yagi.
Simon

Scopes: Astro-Tech AT-111EDT Triplet, TS65ED Quad, Orion ST80, Modded PST-90 Solar Scope, PST Cak (on loan)
Cameras: SXVF H694, Atik 16ic, Canon EOS 600d, DMK41, DMK21, QHY 5L-II (mono & colour)
Accessories: SX USB Filter Wheel, SX OAG, Baader LRGB Ha SI OII Filters, SharpSky Focuser
Mount: EQ6 (EQMOD), SW Star Adventurer, plus a lot (and I mean a lot) of other bits and pieces

Offline Bazzaar

  • Poster God
  • *****
  • Posts: 979
Re: Meteor Radar SDR Receiver (usnig FUNcube dongle)
« Reply #27 on: 22:37:30, 15 August, 2014 »
I would suspect the discone too Chris.
Great aerials for general tuning around over a wide frequency range, but for a specific task maybe lacking.
Unless its 30 meters up with a masthead amp?
Barry
Tal 200k, SW 200P, iOptron iEQ45 pro, HEQ5 pro, QHY5III174m, QHY5L II mono, Samsung SBC 2001, SharpSky focuser, Zwo ADC,  Celestron 15x70 bins,

Offline ChrisLX200

  • Poster God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2281
  • Macclesfield UK
Re: Meteor Radar SDR Receiver (usnig FUNcube dongle)
« Reply #28 on: 23:14:56, 15 August, 2014 »
Sorry Chris, didn't mean to teach granny to such eggs... can only go on my limited experience and as you can see I picked them up from Graves with a 3 element yagi.

Not at all Simon, it was a reasonable question. I don't know much about radio at all, just enough for me to set up and run my old meteor scatter setup. But in the past I used frequencies between 45 - 60MHz and had a huge signal to work with, so with a 20-fold weaker signal at 143MHz maybe the Discone simply isn't the tool for the job.

Barry, the antenna is on a 4 meter mast and no amp, can't go any higher really. I know to get the best gain out of the Yagi it should be 10 metres off the ground.

ChrisH
Chris Heapy - current: 10-Micron GM2000HPS-II U/P, G11/Gemini, TV NP127is, Altair 8" RC, TV Genesis SDF, TV Pronto, SW Equinox 80ED, 10" LX200, 12" f/5.4 Newt, Vixen 90mm.
Atik 490EX, Atik EFW, Baader LRGB filters, Astrodon 3nM NB filters, Lodestar, QHY5L-II all-sky, Canon 70D and 350D
Whirley Obs., MPC Code Z89

Offline ChrisLX200

  • Poster God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2281
  • Macclesfield UK
Re: Meteor Radar SDR Receiver (usnig FUNcube dongle)
« Reply #29 on: 14:04:11, 17 August, 2014 »
Another thing I find with this (new) Obs PC I'm using, there's a lot of random noise in the trace which seems to originate from the PC itself, probably the rubbish on-board sound chip. If I disconnect the audio input from the receiver most of the noise is still there! I guess I'll need to invest in a half-decent sound card offering better noise isolation. On my home desktop PC I used previously it was equipped with a Creative soundcard and it performed pretty well, but I didn't buy that card specifically for the job. If I do have to buy one for the Obs PC I'll be looking for one with the best s/n specs. Anyone been down this path and bought one for the job?

ChrisH

Edit: I spotted an Xonar Essence STX on offer on OCUK so snagged that, it may do nothing for the radio meteor observations but my music will sound better :)
Chris Heapy - current: 10-Micron GM2000HPS-II U/P, G11/Gemini, TV NP127is, Altair 8" RC, TV Genesis SDF, TV Pronto, SW Equinox 80ED, 10" LX200, 12" f/5.4 Newt, Vixen 90mm.
Atik 490EX, Atik EFW, Baader LRGB filters, Astrodon 3nM NB filters, Lodestar, QHY5L-II all-sky, Canon 70D and 350D
Whirley Obs., MPC Code Z89

 

ukbuysellRemote Imaging from AustraliaSharpSkyblank APTUKAI on Facebook
Powered by SMF 2.0.13 | SMF © 2006, Simple Machines LLC
DarkBreak by DzinerStudio. Theme modified by The UKAI Team

Page created in 0.476 seconds with 36 queries.
TinyPortal © 2005-2012