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Author Topic: Adding CCD and FW to Esprit 80  (Read 703 times)

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Offline midnight_lightning

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Adding CCD and FW to Esprit 80
« on: 22:25:23, 18 September, 2017 »
Hi,

I bought an SX814 and SX Mini Filter Wheel (total back focus 55mm) in June to go on my Esprit 80, they came supplied with 2 small adapters which go between FW and the Spacer on the Flattener.

Someone pointed out that my images looked like the distance from flattener to CCD was too long, when I checked the distance was 72.5mm - it should be 61mm.

The Skywatcher manual specifies the Flattener Spacer as 6mm but I have measured it as 12.5mm. Either I have measured it incorrectly or the manual is wrong. Some pictures attached.

When I placed the order I asked for a packaged solution but am not getting anywhere with the supplier in resolving the issue.

Can anyone suggest a solution, I assume there must be others on here using a similar setup.
Thanks

Jon
HEQ5 Pro (Belt Mod), Sky Watcher Esprit Pro 80/400, SX Mini Filter Wheel with OAG - Lodestar X2, SX814, Software - SGPro, PHD2, Stellarium (Scope), EQMOD, DSS, Star Tools.

Offline chris.bailey

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Re: Adding CCD and FW to Esprit 80
« Reply #1 on: 22:50:39, 18 September, 2017 »
The Skywatcher manual suggests it should be 66mm from the mating surface of the flattener to the CCD itself (which is some way inside the body - 17mm from memory for SX cameras).

the only way to sort it is to have the ring form the front of the filter wheel that mates directly to the flattener (M48?) and then make or have made (£££) a custom spacer to get it exact.

Chris
LX200|ZS70|FSQ85|FLT110|Altair DF250RC|EQ6 Pro(Rowan Belt Mod)|ParamountMX
ATIK383L+/EFW2/OAG|Lodestar|Baader 36mm LRGBHaSIIOIII
Starlight Express SXVRH16/ONAG/FW|Lodestar X2|Baader 2" Filters
Starlight Express SXVRH814/ONAG/FW|LodestarX2|Baader 2" Filters
Lunt LS60PTBF1200|DMK41|Quark Chromo
Samyang 135mm f1.8

Offline chris.bailey

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Re: Adding CCD and FW to Esprit 80
« Reply #2 on: 07:57:26, 19 September, 2017 »
ps you should have two spacers with the flattener, an 11mm and a 6mm. The 6mm comes assembled on the flattener body and it looks like it still is in your photos. The 66mm should be measured from the actual body and not the face of the 6mm spacer.

The SX mini filter wheel setup gives 54mm from the front flange of the filter wheel adapter to the CCD face leaving you with 12mm to play with so it seems to me that if you loose the 6mm spacer and keep the 12.5mm one, it should be pretty darned close OR you will need to have made a 12mm spacer. You can buy 1mm Delrin spacers so a 10mm spacer (easily bought) and a couple of Delrin 1mm rings would get you spot on.

LX200|ZS70|FSQ85|FLT110|Altair DF250RC|EQ6 Pro(Rowan Belt Mod)|ParamountMX
ATIK383L+/EFW2/OAG|Lodestar|Baader 36mm LRGBHaSIIOIII
Starlight Express SXVRH16/ONAG/FW|Lodestar X2|Baader 2" Filters
Starlight Express SXVRH814/ONAG/FW|LodestarX2|Baader 2" Filters
Lunt LS60PTBF1200|DMK41|Quark Chromo
Samyang 135mm f1.8

Offline midnight_lightning

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Re: Adding CCD and FW to Esprit 80
« Reply #3 on: 11:09:01, 19 September, 2017 »
Hi Chris,
I have been going around in circles with this for day sand am losing the will to live :)

The excerpt from the manual below shows 61mm from the back of the flattener to CCD is required.

The photos above show measurements to the camera from both sides of the spacer and the difference between both measurements is the width of the spacer (55.5mm and 43mm).

This works out at 12.5 but my Vernier is cheap and nasty so I suspect this is the 11mm spacer - however it looks identical and in proportion to the picture of the "6mm" spacer in the manual. So I am confused. (The CCD in the camera adds 17.5mm.)

I only received one spacer with the Esprit but if I could replace this one with 6mm, and replace the existing FW to Spacer chain with an M48 adapter on the FW I might not be far off.

Precise Parts in the US can make an M66x1 adapter to go between FW and Flattener but it's $134+postage!

Would you check the photographs above for me and verify that I haven't incorrectly measured the spacer as 12.5mm (11mm) - I'm still trying to get my head around what I need to be measuring, for example some adapters don't fully screw onto threads which increases spacing. At least if I can confirm which spacer I have I then I can look at other options.

Thanks

Jon
HEQ5 Pro (Belt Mod), Sky Watcher Esprit Pro 80/400, SX Mini Filter Wheel with OAG - Lodestar X2, SX814, Software - SGPro, PHD2, Stellarium (Scope), EQMOD, DSS, Star Tools.

Offline chris.bailey

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Re: Adding CCD and FW to Esprit 80
« Reply #4 on: 12:29:14, 19 September, 2017 »
Are you sure thats the manual for the 80mm as the manual I found shows 66mm!

Are you sure the 6mm spacer is not still screwed onto the flattener?

Either way I reckon that removing the 11/12.5 mm spacer and replacing it with an adapter should get you pretty close.

I have had to grind (butcher) a bit off male threads to get them to fully mate with their female counterpart.

Chris
LX200|ZS70|FSQ85|FLT110|Altair DF250RC|EQ6 Pro(Rowan Belt Mod)|ParamountMX
ATIK383L+/EFW2/OAG|Lodestar|Baader 36mm LRGBHaSIIOIII
Starlight Express SXVRH16/ONAG/FW|Lodestar X2|Baader 2" Filters
Starlight Express SXVRH814/ONAG/FW|LodestarX2|Baader 2" Filters
Lunt LS60PTBF1200|DMK41|Quark Chromo
Samyang 135mm f1.8

Offline midnight_lightning

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Re: Adding CCD and FW to Esprit 80
« Reply #5 on: 21:48:53, 20 September, 2017 »
Hi Chris,

Checked the paper manual that came with the scope and the backfocus should definitely be 61mm.

I contacted SkyWatcher to say my backfocus was 72mm and what should I do and they have told me just to swap the 6mm spacer for an 11mm one - so no help there.

I'm really busy for a few days so will think about it again next week.

HEQ5 Pro (Belt Mod), Sky Watcher Esprit Pro 80/400, SX Mini Filter Wheel with OAG - Lodestar X2, SX814, Software - SGPro, PHD2, Stellarium (Scope), EQMOD, DSS, Star Tools.

Offline midnight_lightning

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Re: Adding CCD and FW to Esprit 80
« Reply #6 on: 16:05:48, 02 October, 2017 »
And so, after several weeks of banging my head against the wall and various emails to SkyWatcher I have just received the response below from them:

Dear Sir,
Thank you for your patience. Unfortunately there indeed was an error in the manual which the factory confirms with their message below.
We are sorry to tell you that it is wrong on the manual, the spacer should be 11.10mm. We will correct on the manual in the future.
And the back focus from flattener to CCD should be 66.1mm, instead of 61mm.
Please have this customer use the 11.10mm spacer to try again. Thank you.
We apologise for the inconvenience this has caused you and thank you for bringing this to our attention.
Kind regards,


Grrrrrrrrrr!!!!

At least I now have a firm footing and can try and work out a solution for my CCD camera.

Chris, I suspect you may have found an older manual that had the correct details and the new ones are wrong (?)
HEQ5 Pro (Belt Mod), Sky Watcher Esprit Pro 80/400, SX Mini Filter Wheel with OAG - Lodestar X2, SX814, Software - SGPro, PHD2, Stellarium (Scope), EQMOD, DSS, Star Tools.

Offline chris.bailey

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Re: Adding CCD and FW to Esprit 80
« Reply #7 on: 16:40:24, 02 October, 2017 »
Mid

That kind of makes sense as Nikon Sensors have a metal back distance of 55mm (Canon are 47mm) so 66.1 - 11.1 gives the magic 55mm. A lot of people don't realise you then need an additional 8mm  for a Canon DSLR.

Confusing aint it!

If you think thats bad, the Williams Optics guys, in their wisdom, gave a sensor distance measure from the centre point of the rear element on one of their flatteners. That took a few emails before they realised that was impossible to measure!

Chris
LX200|ZS70|FSQ85|FLT110|Altair DF250RC|EQ6 Pro(Rowan Belt Mod)|ParamountMX
ATIK383L+/EFW2/OAG|Lodestar|Baader 36mm LRGBHaSIIOIII
Starlight Express SXVRH16/ONAG/FW|Lodestar X2|Baader 2" Filters
Starlight Express SXVRH814/ONAG/FW|LodestarX2|Baader 2" Filters
Lunt LS60PTBF1200|DMK41|Quark Chromo
Samyang 135mm f1.8

 

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