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Author Topic: Which of these three Atik ccd's would match my set up best?  (Read 739 times)

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Offline Annie

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Have finally decided to move to a mono ccd camera in time for next winter and have identified three Atik cameras. In addition to their good reputation I like the look of their capture software, Artemis which I think will enable me initially at least to keep my set up relatively simple and take it step by step.  The three cameras I have identified are the 383L+, 460ex and 490ex. The 383 will give me a resolution of 2.09 pixels per second,  the 460-1.76 and the 490 - 1.43.  Although in theory between 1 and 2 seconds is often recommended I wondered if that was a bit high given our average seeing conditions though I do live in a relatively dark place.  The no. of pixels in the 383 is 3354x2529, the 460, 2749x2199 and the 490, 3379x2703.  Gain is respectively 0.19, 0.27 and 0.41. Full well, respectively 12500, 18000 and 26000. Cooling on both the 460 and 490 is -25deg C and -40 with the 383.  I had though about Starlight Express because of the lower cooling but Artemis swung it! The 383 is heavier at 700g compared to 400g for the other two. The 383 is obviously a different shape and I haven't found out if there is any difference in the backfocus - with the 460 and 490 it's 13mm I think.

The 383 is around £1600, the 460ex £2000 and the 490ex £2200.  Given the price difference would there be any significant difference  between them in use? Should I be thinking about anything else - perhaps I've already overthought it!!

My primary scope the  Takahashi 106ed at 530mm, f/5.

Thanks

Annie
Pulsar Observatory; NEQ6/EQ6 wedge; HEQ5 Pro; TS Star 71 Astrograph; Takahashi FSQ 106ed; Skymax 150 Pro; Nikon D600; Canon 550D modified; Canon 5D Mk11; ZWO ASI120 MM-S; Lacerta MGEN stand alone guider.

Online chris.bailey

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Re: Which of these three Atik ccd's would match my set up best?
« Reply #1 on: 17:42:40, 01 March, 2018 »
Annie

The differences in resolution don't probably have any real world differences, they are all in the sweet zone. The big difference is the 383 will give you a biggest field of view of the three and that is probably more of a consideration. The 383 really needs 2" or 36mm unmounted filters, the other two can just about work with 1.25" filters

I have a 383 and the Starlight version of the 490 (as well as the colour version of the 460). The 490 gets most use but I do like the field of view of the 383. If I had to choose to keep one, it would be the 490.

Chris
LX200|ZS70|FSQ85|FLT110|Altair DF250RC|EQ6 Pro(Rowan Belt Mod)|ParamountMX
ATIK383L+/EFW2/OAG|Lodestar|Baader 36mm LRGBHaSIIOIII
Starlight Express SXVRH16/ONAG/FW|Lodestar X2|Baader 2" Filters
Starlight Express SXVRH814/ONAG/FW|LodestarX2|Baader 2" Filters
Lunt LS60PTBF1200|DMK41|Quark Chromo
Samyang 135mm f1.8

Offline Annie

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Re: Which of these three Atik ccd's would match my set up best?
« Reply #2 on: 17:49:19, 01 March, 2018 »
I was intending to get 36mm unmounted filters - Baader I assume - with the EFW2 with whichever of the three I decided upon.  Why would you choose to keep the 490?

Annie
Pulsar Observatory; NEQ6/EQ6 wedge; HEQ5 Pro; TS Star 71 Astrograph; Takahashi FSQ 106ed; Skymax 150 Pro; Nikon D600; Canon 550D modified; Canon 5D Mk11; ZWO ASI120 MM-S; Lacerta MGEN stand alone guider.

Online chris.bailey

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Re: Which of these three Atik ccd's would match my set up best?
« Reply #3 on: 18:23:31, 01 March, 2018 »
Why would you choose to keep the 490?

Hard to define really. Remember mine is the SX version, the SX814. I like the USB hub on the camera as I have a tiny bit of cable OCD. It has just become my GoTo camera for my FSQ85 and this season on the back of a Samyang 135. Nothing wrong with the 383L at all and mine has seen a lot of use. To be honest I think you would be happy with either.

Chris

ps yes, all my filters are Baader. I have a set of 2"mounted and 36mm unmounted. The advantage of the 36mm is you can do a single wheel with LRGBHaSII and OII all on line.
LX200|ZS70|FSQ85|FLT110|Altair DF250RC|EQ6 Pro(Rowan Belt Mod)|ParamountMX
ATIK383L+/EFW2/OAG|Lodestar|Baader 36mm LRGBHaSIIOIII
Starlight Express SXVRH16/ONAG/FW|Lodestar X2|Baader 2" Filters
Starlight Express SXVRH814/ONAG/FW|LodestarX2|Baader 2" Filters
Lunt LS60PTBF1200|DMK41|Quark Chromo
Samyang 135mm f1.8

Offline Annie

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Re: Which of these three Atik ccd's would match my set up best?
« Reply #4 on: 18:49:23, 01 March, 2018 »
Thanks Chris.  I may well go for the 383L+ as I like the Field of View it offers.

Annie


Pulsar Observatory; NEQ6/EQ6 wedge; HEQ5 Pro; TS Star 71 Astrograph; Takahashi FSQ 106ed; Skymax 150 Pro; Nikon D600; Canon 550D modified; Canon 5D Mk11; ZWO ASI120 MM-S; Lacerta MGEN stand alone guider.

Online Nimbus

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Re: Which of these three Atik ccd's would match my set up best?
« Reply #5 on: 19:17:57, 01 March, 2018 »
Annie, I had a 383L+ and a 460, although the 383L+ offers a greater fov over the 460 the 460 is much more sensitive, which is one of the reasons I kept the 460. Obviously my 16200 takes care of the fov needs. Regardless of which camera you choose you will really notice a difference in sensitivity compared to your DSLR. CS Jim
EQ8 Pro
TAK FSQ 106 EDX IV
ATIK 16200 Mono, Atik OAG, Atik EFW3 2" LRGB S2 8.0nm /Ha 3.5nm/O3 8.5nm, Baader Filters, Lodestar Guider, Focusmax4, Robofocus
Maxim DL6.13, CdC & Photoshop CS3E,

Online chris.bailey

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Re: Which of these three Atik ccd's would match my set up best?
« Reply #6 on: 19:53:26, 01 March, 2018 »
I may well go for the 383L+ as I like the Field of View it offers.

At the end of the day, that is probably the key deciding factor. I have spent most of this season (for what it has been) imaging at 5.7"/pxl and much of last year at 0.73 "/pxl....both very sub-optimal but the field of view suited my targets.

LX200|ZS70|FSQ85|FLT110|Altair DF250RC|EQ6 Pro(Rowan Belt Mod)|ParamountMX
ATIK383L+/EFW2/OAG|Lodestar|Baader 36mm LRGBHaSIIOIII
Starlight Express SXVRH16/ONAG/FW|Lodestar X2|Baader 2" Filters
Starlight Express SXVRH814/ONAG/FW|LodestarX2|Baader 2" Filters
Lunt LS60PTBF1200|DMK41|Quark Chromo
Samyang 135mm f1.8

Offline Annie

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Re: Which of these three Atik ccd's would match my set up best?
« Reply #7 on: 21:05:21, 01 March, 2018 »
Thanks Jim and Chris- I haven't made a final decision yet - the only decision I've definitely made is to move to a mono CCD but it will be an Atik and one of the three mentioned.

Annie
Pulsar Observatory; NEQ6/EQ6 wedge; HEQ5 Pro; TS Star 71 Astrograph; Takahashi FSQ 106ed; Skymax 150 Pro; Nikon D600; Canon 550D modified; Canon 5D Mk11; ZWO ASI120 MM-S; Lacerta MGEN stand alone guider.

Offline Einari

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Re: Which of these three Atik ccd's would match my set up best?
« Reply #8 on: 10:10:50, 02 March, 2018 »
One difference that comes to mind is dark current which is ~0.1 electrons/second at -10° with 383 and 0.0004 electrons/second at -10° with 460 and 0.0003 electrons/ second at -10° with 490.
So with Kodak (383) you have to take/use darks but with Sony sensors there is no need - or at least I don't take them and I'm not the only one.

PS I would prefer Sony sensor cameras but have you noticed this ?
http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=134535
Tapio

Celestron C8, C9.25" & Hyperstar, iOptron CEM60-EC, TS 80 triplet,  Coronado PST, SXV-694,  ASI120MM/ASI174MC Cool

Offline Annie

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Re: Which of these three Atik ccd's would match my set up best?
« Reply #9 on: 10:30:52, 02 March, 2018 »
Actually Tapio that's a point I'd forgotten about so a timely reminder!

I also notice that the 490 has no ST4 autoguiding  connection but not sure the implications of this .  Also more than one person has commented on the difference between the USB hub on Atik cameras compared to Starlight Express - the significance of which I don't understand?

Annie

Pulsar Observatory; NEQ6/EQ6 wedge; HEQ5 Pro; TS Star 71 Astrograph; Takahashi FSQ 106ed; Skymax 150 Pro; Nikon D600; Canon 550D modified; Canon 5D Mk11; ZWO ASI120 MM-S; Lacerta MGEN stand alone guider.

Offline Einari

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Re: Which of these three Atik ccd's would match my set up best?
« Reply #10 on: 11:20:27, 02 March, 2018 »
I really don't see much reason for ST4 in the more pricier ccd cameras - unless you have two of them and want to use the other one for guiding (can't image & guide at the same time).
Starlight Xpress has USB hub and Atik don't (well Atik One has but that's not on your list).
It helps reduce cabling issues.
Tapio

Celestron C8, C9.25" & Hyperstar, iOptron CEM60-EC, TS 80 triplet,  Coronado PST, SXV-694,  ASI120MM/ASI174MC Cool

Online chris.bailey

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Re: Which of these three Atik ccd's would match my set up best?
« Reply #11 on: 11:50:54, 02 March, 2018 »
Yes the 383L does 'need' darks but thats no big deal. The ST4 port is only needed if you want to use the camera as a guider (a very expensive guide camera) with a cable. The SX Trius series cameras have a 3 port powered hub on the camera so you can connect the USB of the filter wheel, guide camera, and focuser to the camera with short USB cables. Just makes it a bit neater.

Chris
LX200|ZS70|FSQ85|FLT110|Altair DF250RC|EQ6 Pro(Rowan Belt Mod)|ParamountMX
ATIK383L+/EFW2/OAG|Lodestar|Baader 36mm LRGBHaSIIOIII
Starlight Express SXVRH16/ONAG/FW|Lodestar X2|Baader 2" Filters
Starlight Express SXVRH814/ONAG/FW|LodestarX2|Baader 2" Filters
Lunt LS60PTBF1200|DMK41|Quark Chromo
Samyang 135mm f1.8

Offline Annie

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Re: Which of these three Atik ccd's would match my set up best?
« Reply #12 on: 12:01:15, 02 March, 2018 »
Thanks for the explanation Chris.

Annie
Pulsar Observatory; NEQ6/EQ6 wedge; HEQ5 Pro; TS Star 71 Astrograph; Takahashi FSQ 106ed; Skymax 150 Pro; Nikon D600; Canon 550D modified; Canon 5D Mk11; ZWO ASI120 MM-S; Lacerta MGEN stand alone guider.

Offline TareqPhoto

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Re: Which of these three Atik ccd's would match my set up best?
« Reply #13 on: 20:28:15, 02 March, 2018 »
I am just wondering why to choose Atik over another manufacturers? even when i was looking for a mono camera before i didn't get recommendations of Atik, maybe one or 2 did only, so i didn't know why here it is only Atik brand regardless its reputation.

Online chris.bailey

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Re: Which of these three Atik ccd's would match my set up best?
« Reply #14 on: 22:27:56, 02 March, 2018 »
I am just wondering why to choose Atik over another manufacturers?

In the UK Atik or Starlight Express so if you need service it is close to hand. USB failed on my Starlight Express - posted ..fixed...returned in two days. Same when one of my Atiks needed a clean. They doing that here with SBIG or QSI.
LX200|ZS70|FSQ85|FLT110|Altair DF250RC|EQ6 Pro(Rowan Belt Mod)|ParamountMX
ATIK383L+/EFW2/OAG|Lodestar|Baader 36mm LRGBHaSIIOIII
Starlight Express SXVRH16/ONAG/FW|Lodestar X2|Baader 2" Filters
Starlight Express SXVRH814/ONAG/FW|LodestarX2|Baader 2" Filters
Lunt LS60PTBF1200|DMK41|Quark Chromo
Samyang 135mm f1.8

 

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